REWIND: Niching Your Agency with David Miles

When the economy gets tough and we are heading for a recession, doubling down on your niche might feel really counterintuitive after all. Surely if we are more of a generalist and we can target our services to a wider audience, surely that's a safer way of winning new business. Well, I'm here to say no, that is absolutely not true. In fact, the opposite is true. The more you double down on your knee, the easier it will be for you to find your audience and, more importantly, for them to find you.

And, of course, you will be seen as the specialist, not the generalist and as the specialist people will want to buy from you. And of course, that means you can charge higher fees as well. So in this week's episode, I want to rewind and play you a previous episode that we did right back at the beginning when we launched the podcast was all about snitching and my guest, David Miles, talked about how snitching has really helped his agency grow and flourish and continue to flourish. So let's jump in and let's rewind all the way back to 2020 so good morning, everybody.

I am super excited to have David Miles, who is the MD of the PPC machine. Now, David's been helping thousands of companies market themselves online since 2003. So he has an awful lot of advice and, no doubt, lots of experience of how the industry has changed over the last 20 years to share with us today. So welcome aboard, David. Great to be here and looking forward to doing it. So do you just want to give us a little quick snapshot of yourself and your background? And what led you to start your own agency?

Yes. Well, basically, as you said back in about 2003 was when I started learning online marketing and getting involved in that. And that was through necessity in that, I was running a business of my own in the financial services sector, and we needed to market ourselves more effectively. And it was through that I learned about things like Google AdWords as it was called then and SEO. And building basic websites and landing pages and things. And over the years, that kind of morphed into setting up an agency and doing those same things for other people.

So I guess you've seen an awful lot of change in technology. And the way all of this stuff works in the last. What is it? 17 years? Yes. I mean, I'm certainly on the, “There's been a lot of changes on the CEO”. SEO used to be really quite basic compared to what it is now. You could get away with doing the kind of very old-school things, like stuffing keywords into pages and things and Google. Of course, it's gotten a lot clever and more sophisticated over the years, both in terms of the way it ranks pages and in the kind of results that delivers to users.

And there's also been a lot of changes on the paper click side of Google AdWords or, as it's now called, the Google ads side of things. So everything from it now being a lot more competitive in the back 15, 16 years ago, the cost per click was much lower because there are fewer people using it, but equally, there's been lots of things added to the lots of features added to the system. You can now do a lot more with it than you could back then.

So lots of changes they sent to it had to bring in new things that every few months, every year. So you don't notice it at the time when you then look back from this point. Well, actually, it's now a lot different from what it was 17 years ago. Sure, and we all band around the word PPC when we're talking about this. So can you give us a kind of quick definition of how you would describe what PPC means to US business owners?

Yes, so and it's the most basic level. It stands for pay per click and not, as some people think, I'm saying sometimes paperclip if I speak too quickly. So that's because it describes the kind of advertising model. So if you think about most kinds of old-school advertising, like putting it advert in a magazine or poster at the railway station with that, you're paying for the impression, you're paying for the advert to appear whereas, with anything that's a pay-per-click model, you don't pay for your advert to appear.

You only pay if someone actually clicks on your ad and does the desired action like going through to your website. So what that means is, if it's done correctly, it's actually a far more efficient form of advertising because you're only paying if someone does some kind of response to your ad and shows some kind of interest in it, whereas with the old fashioned paper impression kind of advertising. You know, if you put an ad in your local newspaper and after a week it had no response at all, you'd still have had to pay for that.

Whereas with paper clicks, you only pay if you get some kind of response, right? Excellent. That's a good definition. So we're all looking for really effective ways to market our businesses and to generate new hot prospects. So how do you feel that agencies can use PPC to help generate new business for them? Well, I think there are broadly two ways to do that. There's the direct approach where you take advantage of the fact that PPC systems like Google ads are very good for focusing on the people who are ready to take action.

Now, you know someone who is actually sitting down at Google typing in a search term. They are ready to do something at the moment, there might not be ready to buy something that they are ready to do something. Whether that's by something, finding some information, or talking to somebody. So the direct approach that agencies and you know a lot of other businesses could take is they could focus in on people who are actively searching for a marketing agency or creative agency or whatever kind of agency they are, and make sure that when someone searches for that, their advert is one of the ones that appear.

Now that's the way of targeting. If you like the warmest prospects, it's also the most one of the most expensive ways because you're bidding on keywords, which have a high value. The other approach that can be taken is to go for lower-cost keywords where people are more in the kind of research phase, so they might be searching for things like, “How do I get more people to my website?” or “How do I attract more clients to my agency and that kind of problem-based kind of searches?”

Now someone who's typing that kind of thing in isn't probably going to want to engage an agency at this stage there. Probably not that far down the funnel. But you could use Google ads around that kind of search terms, which have a lower cost per click. Bring people onto your website, but rather than then trying to sell them something, just get them into your funnel with some kind of lead magnet or something like that. So if you can then nurture them via email marketing over the next few weeks or months until they are ready to buy.

And the theory goes that, then when they are ready to buy it for you. But they're going to come back to you rather than someone else because you're the one who's been giving them useful information and offering them value over the last few weeks. Brilliant, yes. So as my audience knows, I'm a big proponent of building your mailing list and the fact that your mailing list is one of your most valuable assets, and that if you keep it warm by sending value-added content to that list, then eventually you will be able to sell to them when they are ready to buy.

And so what you're saying is that you can use PPC for that top-of-the-funnel activity to get people to join your list and then use your email sequences to nurture them so that they're there when they are ready to buy from you. Exactly. Yes, I'm saying yes so you can do that. Or you can go for the bottom of the funnel with PPC, but that will be more expensive. But it depends on whether you want quick results but expensive clicks or whether you want to put more people into your final with a lower cost per click.

But except it will take longer. Or, of course, you could do a combination of the two. So people are focused on doing all sorts of marketing activities such as SEO and another kind of lead generation activities. Where do you feel that PPC fits in? As part of that marketing mix. I think PPC should always be part of the mix. There are a lot of times I hear people say, “Oh, I'll do I'll run Google ads and do PPC until my ex-CEO kicks in and then I'll stop doing the stop doing PPC”.

I think in an ideal world, you should always be doing both because they've each got their pros and cons. The SEI wanted a big advantage over SCO. Is that you're not paying for every single click, but the downside to it is it takes a while to build up. You know, even if you start CEO today, it's going to take you 3 to 6 months to see any results. But the beauty of it is, it's sustainable, whereas with a paper click at the moment you stop paying for it.

You stop getting traffic from it, but the benefits of paper click are you could go after usually a wider range of search terms. You don't appear higher up in the Google search results because the paid ads always appear above the organic results. And there's also been studies done that show that if you appear in both the paid results and the organic results, not only are you getting more exposure because you're on page one of Google twice but actually being in the page results at the top can actually increase the number of clicks that you get on your organic results.

Because a lot of times people will search for something. They'll see you at the top of the page results, and they won't click because they're still skimming down the page. Then they'll see you in the organic results because that's now the second time that they've seen you. Subconsciously, there's a kind of reinforcement effect, So it increases the chance that they're going to click on that organic result so the two can work together in more ways than people. Perhaps at first realised that's a really interesting point.

It's about that sort of role of seven that we have to hit somebody seven times with our content before they're actually engaged with us, and you just sort of discussed that there are two ways of making that happen. And I guess this is a conversation around time or money. I mean, we all either have time to try and implement these things ourselves, or we have money to outsource the services. And the thing about SEO and PPC, of course, is that people really need to know what they're doing.

I mean, you know, I dabbled around with SEO myself until the point when I realised, you know, I don't really know what I'm doing and some of the technical aspects of it I can actually screw my website up if I'm trying to do it myself. So I end up outsourcing it. So I guess this is a sort of time or money. We either have time to invest, to learn or do this ourselves. And of course, we need to do it consistently or we have money to outsource it to somebody who is an expert like yourself.

That's right. Yes. And bear in mind that if you're outsourcing SEO, even if you're outsourcing someone really good, they're not going to get instant results because of the way Google works it will take several months, whereas with PPC, whether you're doing make yourself or outsourcing it one of the beauties of it is. It's instant traffic. So if you set up a Google ads campaign from scratch now, then you know within a couple of hours you're going to have people seeing your ad, clicking it and coming through to your website.

Yeah, really? Good point. I mean, the SEO company I'm working with told me that I really shouldn't expect any significant results for 6 to 9 months so if we do not, I'm not sure any of us want to wait that long to see a return on investments. So that is a really big kind of cheer for why we should be investing in PPC. And I guess this brings me to the question, “Why would you recommend that people should outsource this service to a specialist agency like yourself, rather than trying to do it themselves?

Well, I think there are a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's not a lot of people don't want to get involved in doing this kind of thing themselves, but also there's the argument that says, “Even if it's something that you would like to do, want to get involved in, is that actually the best use of your time”. You know, if you're a highly skilled lawyer, for example, what's the best use of your time? Is it going out giving legal advice to people and charging how much £100 an hour for that?

Or is it trying to get your head around running a good glance campaign? And I think with something like Google ads, it's something that anyone can learn if they want to. But the question is, “Is that really actually the best use of their time?” And also there's the issue that if you do it yourself and do it wrong, then it can actually end up costing you a lot of money. And that's one of the biggest issues I find with people who've tried Google ads.

They're often very against it and very anti-it because they tried it themselves once and spent a lot of money and got nothing back. And that's because this maybe sounds a bit cynical. But Google makes it very easy for basically anyone to set up their first Google ads campaign. But they also make it so that you accept all the default settings. You're probably going to set up a campaign which puts more money in Google's pocket than it does in yours, right? Yeah, And the thing I was going to say was that, of course, it's not just about having the time to learn how to do this and set it up, but probably as importantly, it's having the time to constantly monitor and manage.

Look at the dashboard, looked at the metrics and amend your advertising as appropriate based on those metrics. And I'm not sure any of us really have the time to do that, except for specialists who do it all day long. Yeah, definitely. And that's actually another common misconception is that people think you can set up a Google Ads campaign and then walk away and leave it, and some in some sectors can do that. But you're never gonna get the best results from that because when you set up a pay-per-click campaign at the outset, you're doing it based on best practices and what you believe ought to work the best.

But you can never be certain what the best strategy is until you start getting data back and seeing you know, this keyword performs better than that one or this advert is getting more clicks than this one, and then you make changes based on that. So you're always evolving and testing and measuring new strategies. Or at least you are if you want to be getting the best possible return on investment from it. And if you've got competitors who were doing that kind of constant improvement and you're not, then you're the one who's going to end up paying over the odds or not getting the results from it.

Yeah, just to reinforce the point you made about whether is it the best use of someone's time. I tell all of my clients and my audience all the time that you should focus on doing the things that only you can do and look at ways of delegating those other things. And those other things in this case would be PPC AdWords management. Because is it really the best use of your time? And there are always ways of delegating and because I know some of my audience will be sitting here thinking, “Yeah, but I can't afford, you know, to hire someone”, but actually we can use people and freelance capacity.

We can hire people from Upwork or even Fiverr. We can use VAs who have special ISMs in this as well as, of course, using companies like yourselves, the PPC machine who can manage the whole campaign. So there are always ways of outsourcing that and making sure that we are spending our time doing the things that only we can do and the things that are genuinely going to move our agencies forward because they don't forget as well that when we talk about delegating, it doesn't necessarily have to be outsourcing externally.

You know, some of the clients I work with, delegated the Google ads and other digital marketing to some an employee. And maybe it's a fairly junior employee who has a bit of knowledge of this stuff, but they can then be supported by an external trainer or coach to develop them so that it doesn't have to be totally outsourced. You can delegate internally as well, and if necessary, get me or someone like me to provide external support to them.

Yeah, and so I think on that note, I understand that you do kind of done for your service. But you also do a provider done with your service. So that would be outsourcing the whole management to you, but also using you to coach someone like you just described a junior person in the house to give them some expertise and transfer some of your knowledge to them. And I think that works. The nice thing with that is it allows it's obviously cheaper than paying someone externally to do the whole thing for you.

But also, you're providing training to a member of staff. You're developing some of the skill set, and it is the transference of knowledge as well. So you know, whether the person who's being coached on it, it's obviously getting better at doing it all the time. And you've got the advance. You've got the best of both worlds in a way, because you've got the person working in the business who really understands what the company is about and what their products and services are about. But still, with the support of an external expert with many years experience of in doing this stuff perfectly.

And I think in my marketplace, my client's marketplace. We are all in a very competitive space. So we might be running a Web company or a digital agency or even a PPC agency, and we are competing with a lot of other people doing the same thing. So to put to win that battle on AdWords is probably going to cost a lot of money unless you really know what you're doing. And you're constantly looking at those numbers. Yes, it is. I mean, I have this issue myself, obviously being predominantly a PPC agency.

If the people that I am competing with on Google ads are also all experts in Google ads. And so there's far less chance to say, “Oh, look, there's a missed opportunity”. I'll exploit that because no one else has done because you're up against a lot of other people who will know how to do it to us, But that's where things like thinking about different strategies like the thing are one. Rather than trying to get to the bottom of the final stuff.

Let's get some more of the top funnel stuff where it's cheaper and nurture them through. You know, it's still possible, then to compete with people who got huge budgets. And this is why guys, you need to make sure that PPC is one aspect of the marketing mix because if you are using it to generate leads at the top of the funnel, those are people who are your ideal target customer but may not be ready to buy and may not be very aware of who you are.

Then you absolutely have to use that in conjunction with your email marketing with your content outreach so that you're nurturing that audience. So that you're building that no-like trust with them. So that when they are ready to buy, they remember who you are. And you have to do that consistently. I say all the time that if you have 100 ideal target customers today, probably only one of those 100 is ready to buy from you. So what are you doing with the other 99 to make sure that you are still in front of their mind?

When they are ready to buy. And this is my state that a lot of people make. I'm sure you see it from a PPC perspective they may generate. PPC may generate some leads, but if the client doesn't convert those leads immediately into customers, they may come back to you and say, “Well, hey, these aren't good enough quality”. Well, that's not really the case, is it? Exactly. And what people tend to overlook, as well as the fact that not everyone who visits their website is it's the same kind of person or the same quality in terms of, whether they're warm or cold prospects and they have to be treated differently.

There's a fact, there's an article on my website case study from a client I worked with a couple of years ago where they were running a dental practice, and prior to getting involved with me, they'd only ever worked on the basis of referrals. So everyone who rang them up had been recommended to them and was a reasonably warm prospect once they started doing pay-per-click advertising. Of course, they got lots. Of course, some people have never heard of them and we're shopping around a bit.

And one of the things that I got them to do was very much to change their approach to how they dealt with those people and showed them how to move the conversation away from just being about how much a treatment costs to actually doing something to get them into the building and give them a free assessment? But you know, having to treat them differently because they were at a different stage in the funnel. And I think that's something that often when people don't have success with PPC or any other kind of digital marketing, it's often because they've forgotten that these people are perhaps different from the people that they're getting through other channels, and they just need to be followed up with, in a different way that's appropriate.

So we'll put a link to that case study in the show notes because that is really interesting. And guys, this is all about no-like trust. This is about getting people to know you, getting people to like you and then trusting you before they buy from you. And if you think about a dentist, that's definitely the case, because you're not going to have your tooth removed or your root canal surgery from someone that you don't trust. So we have to take our potential customers through that no-like trust journey and depending on where they enter your sales funnel kind of tells you what you need to do next.

And that's that whole nurturing process. I want to move onto one other topic in a moment, David about niches. But before we do that, can you look into an I know if you engage into a crystal ball because obviously, the industry you're working in is really fast changing. And as we said over the last 17 years, you've seen a tonne of change get more sophisticated and more competitive. What's coming up in the next year or so? Have you got any insight into that?

How the industry is going to change, is always dangerous to try and make predictions. I think what we'll see having more and more of an impact is something that's been happening to an extent already as Google gets more and more intelligent in terms of understanding people's searches, and that's going to continue to have an impact on, not just what kind of people rank on Page one of Google, but actually whether they get clicks through to their site. So we've already started to see this a lot of the time.

Now, if you search for something, you'll be able to get the answer from Google without actually clicking through to someone's website. So that might be the knowledge graph results on the right-hand side, you know? So if you go back a few years, if you Googled, what's the capital of France? Google will just give you a load of websites that you go to to get that answer. If you type that same query into Google now, what's the capital of France? It will just put a box up on the right-hand side of research, telling you that's the capitalist Paris and giving you lots of information about it.

So you now don't need to click through to someone's website. Also, you get the features snippets, So if you search for something. Now, very often there will be a list of common questions, and you can just click on that and expand it and see it on the search results page. So I think the change I can see continuing to happen is as Google introduced more and more of these kinds of features people are going to start finding. But even if they're on page one of Google, they're actually getting less traffic because more and more of the information people want can actually be found without leaving the Google page.

All right, so I guess that means people have got to get smarter and smarter about what they're hoping Google will rank them for. And what copied Google puts onto those search results pages as well as how they use their PPC. And I think it potentially shifts the emphasis even more towards PPC because, with all these things I just mentioned at the moment, the ads will still always appear above those additional bits of information. So it almost becomes more important to be the in the paid results because they're going to be right at the very top above all these things that always other information with Google's providing internally, right?

Okay, excellent. So the second topic I wanted to talk to you today about was to do with snitching. My audience knows that I am a big fan of snitching and that the more niche you are, the easier it is to identify your ideal target customer and therefore create marketing messages that resonate with the pain that they're having that you can solve. But it also means that you can often charge higher fees because the niche player is a specialist and the generous as a generalist. And, as I say often if you need knee surgery, you're going to go to a knee specialist surgeon.

You're not going to go to your GP doctor and ask them to carry out the surgery. And, of course, the knee surgeon is going to charge you a lot more money. And I know that this is a journey that you've been on with the PPC machine. So could you just share a bit about that journey? What led you to decide niche that you're in and some of the benefits that you've seen from being in that niche? Yeah, sure. So if you go back four or five years or so I was running a larger agency, a digital agency, which dealt with basically whatever.

Whatever clients came through the door, Really? And whatever. You know, we weren't sector-specific or anything. When I set up this business four years ago, I took the decision then. But I only wanted to work with a small number of clients because the business was going to be just me. So, therefore I had to only work with a small number of clients, and that was when I started thinking, well, one of the ways to focus that down and decide which a small number of clients I'm going to work with is to look at a niche in the business in some way.

Now the reality is that if I'm doing Google ads for pretty much any service-based business, the skills and the techniques involved, I'll basically say you're doing Google ads for an accountant is very much the same as doing Google ads for a solicitor. But what I decided to do was to niche into one particular area. And I chose financial services. Now come on to why I chose that in a minute. But I chose that because that then allows me to philtre down my market to a manageable size, but also allows me to be a specialist in that particular sector because although the skills involved might be exactly the same.

And although from my point of view, doing Google ads for a mortgage broker is not much different from doing Google ads for a lawyer, the perception from the client side is that you know their industry and their business is always different from everyone else's, and they need a specialist in that particular sector. So I chose to need into financial services, mainly because it was a world I'd been involved in prior to being in digital marketing. So I mentioned back at the beginning that I learned I started to learn digital marketing when I had a business in a different sector, and I said that was financial services.

I owned firmer financial advisors and mortgage brokers. And so, by specialising in that niche now, it means two things. Firstly, you know, I can kind of talk the same language as my clients. You know, it's a regulated industry. I understand. You know what that means and the challenges that bring. I understand the products and services they're selling so that makes things easy. It makes it easier for me to market their products and services can understand them, and it makes them feel more comfortable.

They're dealing with someone who speaks the same language as them and understands their business and their challenges. But it also means as well that it becomes easier to build rapport with potential clients as well. Because we've got this kind of shared. We've got this shared background, they're doing now the stuff that I was doing 15, 16 years ago, so we've got that kind of thing in common. And I think that's really important, particularly in a business like mine, where it's very much working 1 to 1 with business owners.

It's important that we understand each other and we get on well and we've got things in common, so I found it makes a real difference from that point of view and the other area. What makes a big difference is it actually makes marketing easier. So when we were talking just now about Google ads and pay-per-click, one of the things I was going to say, then is another way to keep the cost down is to be very specific about who you want to see your ads.

And years ago when I was running training courses on Google and I used to have a couple of slides that demonstrated this and I'd show Google search results if somebody went on and search for an accountant and the other belongs loads of adverts and then another where someone went on a search for an accountant who specialises in actors. And then there were only two or three ads. So it's the benefits of it. Although it makes it easier to market yourself, it makes it easier to win new clients.

And it makes it easier to deliver the service because you're dealing with the same kinds of people with the same kinds of problems and challenges, with all the clients that you deal with. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess you know, when you have a background in that sector, you can tell a compelling story. I mean, it's the same with me, working with marketing agencies, given that I started on my own, grew and sold my own marketing agency makes it much more authentic and engaging for potential clients when they realise that you've been there and done it.

You've been in the trenches with, and you can empathise with the particular situation thereon in their kind of business journey as opposed to being a generalist. And I guess also for you, it means that you can probably be a lot more successful for your clients because, as you say, you're not competing with so many other people for those keywords. Yeah, exactly. And you know, I can use experiences from my own background and miss and things I've learned from working with other clients and things like that and bring it all together to mean that, you know, if someone's in financial services and they work with me, they've got a head start over competitive surveyors who are working with a more generous agency.

So what would you say to someone who was thinking about snitching? Probably intellectually understands the benefits of snitching. But is running this fear of a well-defined niche for my PPC agency to focus on financial services, for example? Then I might miss all these other business opportunities. What would you say to that person? I think that's a really common fear. And it's one that, you know I had myself when I went down. This route was, I don't want to be turning business away and whatever. I think there are two things to remember.

Firstly, if you pick the right kind of niche, there's gonna be plenty of business available within that niche. And also, just because you picked a niche doesn't mean that you can't do anything outside that. I mean, I take the view that I focus all my marketing on that niche, so you'll only see me marketing to people like insurance brokers, financial advisors, mortgage brokers, et cetera. But that doesn't mean I don't have some clients in other sectors, because sometimes people get referred to me by other people or, you know, they just hear about me through word of mouth.

And if they're the right kind of client, you know, I'll still take them on. So it doesn't mean you have to push other businesses away. But it just gives you a very clear focus for your proactive marketing. Yeah, so you sort of heard it here twice now from David and from myself that if you are running that fear and the reason why I asked that question is that I hear that so often when I talk about niche into people, do what David said.

Go niche in your flag to the mask and say, “This is my niche and this is what I do”. “And this is my target customer”. Do that in all of your marketing, your website and or your outbound communications and, if necessary, broaden out from there. And as David said, it doesn't mean you have to turn away every client that doesn't fit in that niche. It just means on a case-by-case basis. You decide if you feel you could get a good result for that client if you feel they would be a good match to work with you and that they get you.

And if all those, if there's a tick in the box to all those questions, then you would take them on. So, you know, we talked a lot about the benefits of snitching. And, you know, as I said, one of the fears is that people worry about missing opportunities, but you're probably not winning a lot of those opportunities right now if you're a generalist. So my advice is to go niche and broaden out. Don't be brought up and try to niche, it's just it's too difficult and you look like everybody else.

And when you look like everybody else, it becomes a race to the bottom because people will pick the supplier based on whether they're the cheapest or whether they promise ridiculous levels of service. And both of those are hiding nothing and a way to run a stressful, unprofitable agency. So we don't want to do that. Definitely. And it's, you know, I very if I'm working within my target niche, I very rarely get into conversations about pricing, and can you reduce the price of that kind of thing because people you know people if they are trying to compare me against someone else.

Well, they're comparing against the generalists, not specialists. So it's immediately obvious why my fees might be higher the than the competitions. And as we said earlier, “Guys, if you need knee surgery, you're going to go to a knee specialist. You're not going to go to your GP doctor, and it's the same with PPC or with coaching or with anything else”. So niche is definitely the way to go. So, David, where can people find out more about you and the PPC machine?

Well, there's lots of information and blog articles and free advice on the website, which is the PPC machine dot co dot UK, or they can connect with me on LinkedIn. But the blog is the main place to get stuff, and if you sign up to the main list on there, you can get updates when new articles are published and everything is okay, so we will put in the show notes a link to David's website, a link to David's LinkedIn address and also a specific link to that case study.

The dentist case study you mentioned earlier. Before I let you go, David, I ask all of my guests this question, which is, if you could go back in time and give your younger self who was just starting out in business, some advice? What would it be? I think it would be around. This idea would be very clear on who it is you want to market to. If I'd found I wish I'd discovered the furnishing concept many years ago because since I started doing that, I've it's definitely changed the business for the better.

It makes the work more enjoyable. It means I can charge higher fees. It means I'm not so stressed running around trying to service lots of different clients. So I think that would be my advice to my younger self would be to find a niche and market to that niche. Brilliant advice. So, guys, if you're just starting out in business, then take David's advice now so that you don't have to wait a whole number of years before you learn that lesson.

Okay, David, it's been fantastic talking to you today. I think there's some really good value-added content that people can start implementing straight away. And it's certainly a podcast topic that is going to get people thinking differently. So thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks. Having me on, Rob, it's been great. So there you have it. I hope you found today's podcast interview with David Miles from the PPC machine useful. I hope you've got some tips on how to teach your agency, how to use PPC as part of your marketing mix.

Now, in the next episode of The Agency Accelerator podcast, I'm going to be talking to you about what it takes to run a successful and profitable agency. So I look forward to joining you then in the next episode.