Rob Da Costa:
Hey, everyone, and welcome to this week's agency accelerator podcast. Now today, I'm really excited to be joined by Mikael Dia, the founder and CEO of Funnelytics. Now in an era where so many agencies struggle to look different because they quite frankly look commoditized, Mikael has been at the forefront of helping agencies differentiate themselves through strategic thinking and data driven decision making. His company Funnelytics, which I'm sure many of you have heard of, provide powerful tools for agencies to visualize, analyze, and optimize their marketing funnels, enabling them to offer unique value to their clients and most importantly stand out in a crowded market. So thanks so much for joining me, Mikael. How was my introduction?

Mikael Dia:
That was that was really nice. Thank you for having me. It was very concise and and perfectly on point. So I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Rob Da Costa:
Good. Good stuff. We're really glad to join you're joining us today. So in your experience, what are the key factors that lead to agencies being commoditized, and how can they start to sort of break away from this trap?

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. I mean, if you think about this, I can go right now on Upwork or any kind of freelancer site and find any service provider for $5 an hour to $500 an hour. If I want somebody for SEO, I'm gonna get somebody for SEO. If I want a Facebook ads person, I'll get a Facebook ads person. Right? And I can I can kind of come up with that at any given time? And then, similarly, learning these skills has also become very much open open source, basically. I can go on Udemy or YouTube, and I can get a whole Facebook ads course on how to run Facebook ads for free. And now all of a sudden, it creates this dynamic where somebody who doesn't really know how to run Facebook ads other than knows what buttons to push can go on Upwork, set up a profile, say they charge $30 an hour, $50 an hour, whatever it is. And now all of a sudden they're gonna start to get work.

Mikael Dia:
And what happens is the businesses are the ones who are suffering because that person, unfortunately, may know how to push buttons in a Facebook ad account. It certainly doesn't mean that they know how to make that click become an actual customer. Right? And ultimately, as a business owner, that's all I care about. I care about making sure that I'm getting results and I'm getting customers. So how do we fix this? How do agencies differentiate themselves and kind of truly provide real results for a client? Well, number 1 is it has to start with strategy first, meaning I've gotta know how my strategy, not my tactic, which may be SEO or Facebook or, you know, conversion optimization or whatever that tactic is, not the tactic, but the strategy, which is the combination of tactics in a sense, leads to the result that my client cares about. Right? So the best way to do this is to visualize that strategy, to kind of create a picture for your clients to show here's how all of these things, all of these components fit together to help you achieve this end outcome that you care about. And then the other thing that now matters as an agency is I should be able to deliver all of the things that are required to get that end result. So if I'm going to put on the strategy that we're going to create 5 blog posts and all of those blog posts are gonna go to some sort of opt in where somebody's going to download a white paper on this particular topic, and we're gonna use SEO plus ads to drive people to those blog posts.

Mikael Dia:
And, you know, after they put in their name and email, there's gonna be email follow ups that's gonna send people to a sales page. And so let's say that's the strategy to get, you know, sales or something like this. If I'm going to propose that strategy, because that strategy is what's gonna get them the result, as an agency, I should be able to deliver on all that, all the aspects of that strategy. And that's how I can no longer become commoditized because you're comparing somebody who does only SEO to an entire strategy that gives me the end result that I care about. And therefore I can charge higher. I can close easier because I'm selling the outcome that they care about. And I'm not really seen and compared to somebody else because their proposal says, we'll do SEO. My proposal says, we're gonna put together this entire thing that's gonna get you the end outcome that you care about.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. That that is so good, and there's a few things I wanted to unpick then. First of all, that commoditized tactical provider, that that person that's found on Upwork or Fiverr or or wherever, they are the result of, or the result of that type of agency means that there's a big turnover in work. Right? Like, clients stay with an agency for 6 months. They use their bag of tricks that they've got for SEO or PPC or whatever it is. They run out of that. And because they're not seen as strategic, but very tactical and commoditized, the client just swaps them in for the next agency. And so I think, you know, for people listening, if you wanna have a longer lifetime value of clients, then you need to make sure you lead with strategy as Mikael says.

Rob Da Costa:
The other thing I wanted to ask you is when a client pushes back on this, because they say, hey, we just want you to run a PPC campaign, or we just want you to optimize our website. What advice and you're kind of trying to lead with strategy? What advice would you have for an agency who's finding themselves in that situation?

Mikael Dia:
What advice would I have or what would I say? Because maybe those are 2 different things.

Rob Da Costa:
Well, what would you say if it happened to you, and what advice would you have?

Mikael Dia:
What what I would say is I would say to a client, that's fine. Go and find somebody on Upwork who can execute on that. It costs you maybe 10 to $15 an hour. Hopefully, it converts, and hopefully hopefully, you've thought about all the other aspects to make sure that those Google Ads convert into customers. However, we don't only focus on the ads. We focus on the end result, and there's other pieces that are required in order to make sure that those Google Ads convert into actual customers, and we look at the entire strategy. So if you only want somebody to push buttons, no problem. You know, here's where you should go for that.

Mikael Dia:
If you want somebody who actually cares about the end result, that's where we come in.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. Great. Great answer. I guess it's I I'd say the same thing. And I think my answer to someone who posed that question to me would be, they're probably not your ideal target client. Because if they don't value that whole kind of stepping back and saying, what is it you're actually trying to achieve? And is this the best way of achieving that? Or are there some other things? Then that's the kind of client you want because they're gonna work with you strategically. What when you mentioned about, you know, you'll provide you should provide this whole offering. Are you suggesting that agencies should broaden their offering, or are you suggesting they should partner with other agencies that have that specialism if they don't have that specialism?

Mikael Dia:
I think I think what you need to really truly get to is what is everything required in order to get the result that the client cares about. And, ultimately, whether I outsource some of those components or I have the in house capabilities to deliver on those components, my responsibility as an agency is the outcome, the result that the client cares about. And for example, if, you know, on page SEO is a requirement for the result and the strategy that I've put together, and I don't have somebody who can do on page SEO, but I have a supplier who can do it, then that's fine. Right? This is where, as an agency, you have the ability to think of freelancers and to think of the commoditized service as your work be like as the people that do the work. Right? So instead of you thinking of your agency as I am the person doing the SEO service, start thinking of your agency as I'm the person who comes up with the whole strategy, and I just happen to know this person who does the SEO service and this person. And and now all of a sudden you're this curator who says, okay. Well, I I know that I can get these people to do these things, and maybe I have some of them in house. Right.

Mikael Dia:
But now I can go to my client and ultimately deliver the result that they care about.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. And of course, absolutely, because the client doesn't really care about the bits and bytes of how you do something they care about the outcome of

Mikael Dia:
absolutely,

Rob Da Costa:
you know, is the outcome delivering, you know, what they expected, and they don't then they in fact, I often say to people that it's a dangerous when the clients start trying to tell you they're almost show that they're experts in what you do because, of course, they're not, and that's why they've implied you. So you wanna kinda keep that away from them. How did let's talk a little bit about funnel analytics. How does I mean, for some people probably won't know the product, some people will, but how does the funnel analytics support you in this process of, being more strategic with clients and visualizing the whole the whole process?

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. That's a good question. So we we build Funnelytics off of this framework that every agency who's result oriented does. And, basically, we we always go through the same cycle, which is plan, measure, optimize. Maybe you throw in build in between plan and measure. But, basically, what we do is we're going to come up with a strategy. Right? We're going to come up with a a we have a goal in mind to generate more sales, generate more leads, generate more appointments, whatever it is, and we're gonna come up with a strategy to make that happen. And in order to actually get that strategy in place, we need to plan it.

Mikael Dia:
So we need to visualize it. We need to get everybody on the same page. We need to know what needs to be built, what needs to be done. So we need to plan that entire strategy. Then after we go and build it, after we go and write the copy, build the pages, set up the ads, write the creatives, all that stuff, we need to go and measure. Because ultimately, if we're a result driven agency, we don't have a choice. We've gotta look at the results and see whether they're working or not. So we've gotta measure, which means that we've got to gather all the data from the Facebook ads and from Google and maybe put together a little dashboard or a spreadsheet or some sort of table, Google Analytics, etcetera, and and kinda report on this on a regular basis.

Mikael Dia:
But we all know that no strategy when it's launched is going to work right away perfectly. We need to optimize. So that's the kind of the next phases. Now we need to look at all of this data, make some decisions, say, okay, we're gonna tweak our ads. We're gonna tweak our page over here. We're gonna run a split test over here. We're maybe gonna add an email sequence over here. Whatever.

Mikael Dia:
Right? So we're gonna optimize this, and and eventually, we're gonna go back through that loop of, okay, the next plan and and so on. Right? And we continue this this cycle. And the challenge that, Funnelytics solves and the problem that Funnelytics solves is we sit right in the middle of that cycle because normally that cycle is very, you know, it's very siloed. Again, you look at your data in one way, you build these dashboards, you plan in another way using a whiteboarding tool, then you have to dive into and get an analyst to kind of help you understand what's working, what's not, and and give you some ideas as to what to do next. So Funnelytics kinda sits in the middle. We have this whiteboarding tool that allows you to map out your entire customer journey, all the different touch points, visualize it. You can also forecast the results and and simulate data to see, you know, would this actually work if if we hit specific numbers? But then I can actually connect my data and and overlay it on top of that strategy, and I can very much see how are people moving through this with real data. Are they moving to the next page? Are they what are the conversion rates? What does that look like? So we can visualize the the results of that strategy.

Mikael Dia:
And then we've got some really advanced cool features that allow us to analyze that, run filters, basically say, hey. Let me only look at the people from Facebook or let me what happens if I increase this conversion rate by 2%, how much more money do I make, etcetera, in order to kinda go through that optimization process? So funnel analytics was just really designed as a platform that allows me to plan, measure, and optimize all in one visual canvas.

Rob Da Costa:
Fantastic. And talk to us a bit about how someone might use that in that early prospecting stage with a client where they're trying to promote this, you know, this we start with a strategy, how might they use phonetics? And and I'm asking that because I think we all know that a picture speaks a 1,000 words, so there's a good place for, you know, visualizing this whole process with prospects.

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. And I I think that that's exactly how people use a tool like Funnelytics. Right? What you just said is really important, which is a picture speaks a 1,000 words, and clients are visual. They sit there and they're like, okay. How does this actually work? Right? The minute you can visualize the strategy and show them a dollar sign at the very end or a lead or whatever it is, now all of a sudden they get it. So we we've had so many people sign up to our tool just because they love the aspect of visualizing and then just having a conversation with their client around the picture. Because once they see the picture, the sale becomes easy. It's no longer about how many backlinks or how many posts.

Mikael Dia:
It's about the strategy. Right? The picture of the strategy. So that's how people use it, for sales purposes.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. And I guess also it's a great way of taking of what is fairly complex flow to explain to a prospect and actually making it nice and simple for them to look at.

Mikael Dia:
Totally.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. And tell me the type of agency that's using Funnelytics.

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. It's a good question. Most of the agencies that use Funnelytics, there there are 2 we kinda have 3 tiers of agencies that have used Funnelytics. So, tier 3 is what I call kind of our our freelancers. They're basically the people who, are consultants, freelancers. They're they're more of the strategists. Right? So they'll use Funnelytics really to kinda have those conversations with clients around strategy. They may not implement your fractional CMOs, your strategist, your consultants, that kind of person.

Mikael Dia:
Right? So they'll use it for sales purposes. They'll use it to communicate high level what the strategy looks like, but they won't necessarily execute. So, you know, there's that group of people. Then there's what we call our funnels as a service agencies. So these agencies are the agencies who ultimately will work with smaller businesses and they'll launch a new customer acquisition strategy for them. So maybe they'll set up some webinars or they'll set up a a lead magnet funnel or, you know, a sales page with an upsell and downsell, and then they'll send traffic to that. Right? So it's it's very, very specific. It's a very specific strategy.

Mikael Dia:
It's a very specific funnel map. And then our our kind of 3rd level agency is more of the agencies who work with existing established businesses. They are already their their clients are already kind of, you know, in the 3 to $30,000,000 range. They're already got they already have traffic. They already are doing stuff in marketing. Now this agency has come in more so because they can help look at the entire picture, help them showcase what's working, what's not, suggest new strategies. They kind of look at a holistic strategy as opposed to a very specific funnel, let's say. So that's kind of the three levels of people that use, or agencies that use phonetics.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. And I've certainly worked with the second tier that you just spoke about where someone's helped me put some funnels in place, and they've used phonetics to bring the whole thing to life. So that's kind of why I was excited to be talking to you today because I've had at least I've used phonetics a bit myself a long time ago, and I've had 2 different people working with me that have used Funnelytics to Cool. To bring my story to life. Nice. Do you think it Funnelytics and some of what you've been talking about works for all types of agency? And the reason I ask that is because my audience isn't just the digital agencies the SEO and PPC. They're also more bricks and mortar agencies like PR agencies and graphic design agencies and web design agencies and so on. So can we apply this to those types of agencies as well?

Mikael Dia:
So yes and no. And from a kind of measuring and optimizing, right, if we think about the 3 pillars, plan, measure, optimize, from a measure and optimize standpoint, when you're doing more offline stuff, it's really hard to measure. Like, if I have traditional TV ads or radio ads or regular kind of PR or more event based marketing as opposed to digital marketing. Right? So funnel it's from a measure and optimize standpoint. It was really designed for digital marketing more so than for, anything else. Now from a planning standpoint, you know, a picture is a picture. So if I can, you know, showcase how I'm able to get people from the events and how they move. Yes.

Mikael Dia:
A lot of people kind of use it to just show workflows, show kind of just high level strategies that aren't necessarily trackable in a sense, But most like, Funnelytics was really designed for the digital marketing agency.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. I I do feel like, though, I think in a way that was a loaded question because I I worked with quite a few PR agencies, and I used to run a PR agency myself. So I'm just the the panacea of PR is finding a really good way of measuring it, which no one's ever really done same mentality. But on the other hand, it is just a great way of raising the discussion to more strategic levels when the client says we wanna hire you to write 5 press releases a month or to help us launch this product. And actually to go in and say, well, no. Hang on a second. Let's look at your bigger business objectives and how the marketing objectives tie in with that. And then let's map this out because it's probably more than just doing that one discrete thing that you think it's actually a whole bunch of other things that we'll we'll need to do to arrive at the outcome that you're looking for.

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. My my favorite thing to be able to do with a client is to look at their existing strategy and put it on a canvas. Once you're able to kind of show them this is what's happening currently, even if you don't put numbers behind it, but you're just like, k. Here's all the pages. Here's how you're currently driving traffic and just walking them through. That alone makes them kind of get to an moment of, like so now you've got this big picture of everything you're doing. Basically, what you're saying is let's just bolt on this PR piece over here to this bigger picture. But a lot of times the issue there is they're just throwing another tactic against the wall, hoping that it actually does something.

Mikael Dia:
Right? So it's like, let's just allocate a budget to throw more spaghetti at a wall, and, hopefully, a piece of spaghetti will stick to the wall and and it works. But when you can map it with them, now it opens up so many possibilities for you to make money as an agency because you can show them, yeah, we can bolt on this PR piece, but we also have to optimize this piece. We also have to consider what happens when somebody does come in and how we're gonna make the website convert more and this and that. Now you can sell them on a much bigger retainer where, okay, we're gonna help you with this whole thing. Right?

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. I love that. And I I just encourage everyone to look listening to or watching to be brave and elevate the conversation to this high strategic level using tools like Funnelytics even if the client is pushing you to be tactical. Mhmm. Let's move on to talk a bit about the future because I think I'd be remiss to not ask you about AI and the impact of AI on Funnelytics and the future, but also how you see the impact on AI on agencies and on the wider sort of marketing industry as well as on phonetics.

Mikael Dia:
So before we talk about AI, I do wanna say one thing that's really interesting about tactical. So one thing that works very, very well, if you're more of a tactical agency trying to switch over to be a strategic, you know, agency, many times so one of the best funnels that we've ever ran for our agency was what we call a vertical services funnel, which is you're using Google Ads and search intent. And obviously nobody's searching for marketing strategy, right, or marketing strategy consultants. Like, there are very few people are searching for that. But lots of people are searching for HubSpot Implementers or, you know, Google Ads Specialist or something along field of science. Now there is a sea of them in there. However, it is a very simple and good entry level offer. So if if you basically do it properly, you can get somebody to pay you for that entry level offer.

Mikael Dia:
You want 5 PR pieces? No problem. 5 PR pieces, it's $5 a month or whatever it is, and we'll we'll write you your 5 PR pieces. But then just be very smart throughout that process of, Hey, we've mapped this whole thing out. It's just a really good ascension opportunity while still getting that foot in the door using the tactics. But just remember that on the tactical side, you will face a sea of, you know, people out there who are gonna quote and do all that stuff. So Yeah. And I actually don't throw that in there.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. No. I appreciate it. Thank you. And I think that sort of answers another question, which is how do people start moving from tactical to strategic. So if you're very much embedded in that tactical place, just keep your eyes open and look for those opportunities and start having 100%. That broader broader conversation. So I think that's good advice.

Rob Da Costa:
Thank you. Yeah. Let's I'm a bit of an AI geek. So I will ask you that question. I don't know whether AI is impacting Funnelytics yet or will do or what your view is about it on our industry and how agencies should be looking and embracing it.

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. I I mean, Funnelytics, 100%. We are looking at AI. We are looking at how we can implement AI, in different ways. The one thing that we are very conscious of and careful with is, right now, I find that there's a lot of products who try to implement AI strictly because it's, you know, what you need to do, and it's the flavor of the month. Now AI is not going anywhere. It's only gonna get bigger and and better. However, very few platforms actually have AI implemented where you actually use the AI.

Mikael Dia:
Right? Like, you're actually sitting here and and and using it regularly and consistently. So for us, we wanna make sure that we're it's valuable when we launch the AI side that it it actually is going to assist you and help you, and it's gonna be your Copilot versus just another shiny button that we can market in a sense. So we are looking at how for us, obviously, it's on the data side. Right? So how can you replace a data analyst? If somebody if you have all of this data, you have these maps, you've basically got, you know, a a visual representation of what's happening. You still need someone to go in there and make some decisions based off of this data. Right? You still need somebody to analyze, ask a few questions and say, hey. You know what? We're gonna focus our attention here, not here. Right? Well, this is where something like AI becomes extremely powerful because now that can be a copilot.

Mikael Dia:
Right? Somebody can go and say, hey. Based on this whole map that you see, based on all of this data, based on these variables and these things, give me a couple scenarios and tell me give me your recommendation as to where we should focus, what should we optimize, you know, all of these things. And that's kind of where we're heading for us at Funnelytics with AI. We're not quite there yet, but that's where we're moving in terms of direction. As a whole, though, when it comes to AI, you know, I I think a lot of people talk about you need to be able to the agencies that are gonna win are the ones who adopt AI and use AI, as opposed to the ones who, you know, who who are going to, you know, in a sense, be commoditized by AI. I have a different view. I think AI is going to replace most things. I think we will any sort of freelancer jobs, any sort of, like, tactical things to me will be completely replaced by AI.

Mikael Dia:
Your marketing team and as a marketing agency, the marketing team will be one person who knows how to use 5 AI tools really well. Right? And I think that that's the future of marketing agencies. Marketing agencies will basically be the strategist. And instead of having to outsource SEO and outsource the pay per click ads at for, you know, 10, $15 an hour, I'm going to have 5 tools that are AI driven that can go and do all of these things. I'm gonna have my video editor. I'm gonna have my image creator. I'm gonna have my copywriter. I'm going to have my so all of these things, I'm gonna have my page builder, etcetera.

Mikael Dia:
And to me, those are going to be the future of marketing agencies. You're going to be this consultant who is strategy first, and I can work with handful of clients, but I'm gonna let have this, you know, the toolbox of AI tools that I can deploy across across the board. And now businesses will have a choice. The choice is, do I hire somebody in house and they go and leverage all these AI tools, or do I hire this consultant who ultimately is leveraging these AI tools? Right? And that's that's the main decision that will happen. So I think in 5 years from now, any repeatable, outsourcable task will be handled by AI.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. So interesting. I I kind of agree with you. I feel like what AI is really gonna do is elevate everybody's role. And it seems to me in the context of this conversation, you're well placed for that because of what we're talking about is being more strategic. And in the short term, anyway, that AI probably isn't gonna replace that piece of thinking, but it is certainly gonna replace a lot of the tactical things. And I I feel like I also want to agree with you, and I'm not gonna mention the product because it's not fair. But one of the products that I use predominantly to run my business has put an AI component into their software, and it's just not very good.

Rob Da Costa:
And, it feels to me like they're doing it because they feel they should because they wanna be on that bandwagon. But I think the other piece that I'd add to the equation from my personal experience is that the industry, although everyone knows about AI, people haven't really worked out how to use it properly yet, or they haven't got it into their kind of mindset workflow of every day that I'll have my AI open next to me, you know, supporting me. They're probably using it because they go to chat gbt and ask a question or something, but not any of these other tools. So I I I feel like it's very exciting, and peep I feel like agencies should be looking at it. I've I've spoken to a few clients who were like, no. No. No. We're copywriters, and AI will never do it as well as us.

Rob Da Costa:
And it's like, yeah, that's not the point, really. It's the the point is that it's gonna help you get to the end result much quicker.

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. I think the reason people here here's the reality. You mentioned sorry about that. You you mentioned kind of that you don't think AI will replace and it'll enhance. Again, I kinda disagree. I think there's a lot of people who will go out of business and will not be able to do what they do because it will be faster, cheaper, simpler to do it with AI. Now I think the biggest challenge for us is to learn how to interact and and delegate to a machine. Right? Which is a a weird foreign concept.

Mikael Dia:
Right? So I think most people don't intuitively know how to delegate to begin with. But even when they do, they're used to a human interpreting it and knowing what to do with it or at least hoping that they can read between the lines in a sense. And in the case of AI, you've got to learn how to go back and forth. So it's it's it's almost like, you know, a lot of copywriters tell me that their copy, you know, AI will never be able to replace copy, like you said. I can get ChatGPT to write better copy than most 99% of copywriters. And the reason is because I figured out how to go back and forth and ask it to switch roles and okay. Now read your copy, but put yourself in the position of the buyer. And this is the buyer.

Mikael Dia:
What are all of your objections? What are what are the challenges? And then it's gonna go and list those for me. Okay. Now switch back to the copywriter role and rewrite the copy based on these objections. And, you know, doing that and understanding how to interact with it in this way, all of a sudden spits out this incredible email that covers all the objections, has a little bit of energy, all of these things. Right? And and once you people start to the people who will survive in this world or, in this AI world are the ones who learn how to interact with the AI in the right way.

Rob Da Costa:
Yeah. I guess it's why there's a whole industry of prompt engineering appearing because that there's a real skill there. It's interesting. I have, I've developed my own AI coach that I have as part of my program, and I can see all the questions that people are putting in. And, you know, there definitely is this kind of garbage in equals garbage out equation here, right? If you ask a poor question in a way that you might ask a colleague, and that colleague can infer the context and so on with the AI can't necessarily do that. So, you know, we we've got to get better at doing that. Anyway, listen, I could talk about that for ages, but it is it does tie back to the whole point that agencies need to look at becoming more strategic or more invaluable to their clients and, you know, everything else we've talked about today. But before we wrap things up to one one last question, and then we'll get some contact details from you.

Rob Da Costa:
I always ask my guests this, and I can't remember if you read this beforehand, but if you go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice when you're just starting out in business, now you're not that old, but what would that, yeah, what would that piece of advice be?

Mikael Dia:
Patience, I think, is the biggest thing. Play the long game, not the short game, and, really think about the overall long term vision, and don't rush that getting to that vision. Right? So continue to execute towards that, but play the long game. I think most businesses and most people think that, you know, especially in this day and age, especially when you're young, in this day and age, you see the Lamborghinis on Instagram, you see the people making $10,000 $20,000 a month, You see that kind of laptop lifestyle, and you get excited by that, and you want it in the next 6 months so that you can not work after university in a sense. But there's a big difference between building a proper business and making a little bit of money. Right? And if you wanna build something that is impactful and long lasting and that actually generates, you know, long term long term financial, you know, wealth that you you have to play the longer game, and you have to be patient.

Rob Da Costa:
And do you think your younger self would listen to that piece of advice?

Mikael Dia:
No. I always lost that.

Rob Da Costa:
And the answer is normally no. But yeah, goodness, we get so much wiser. And I wish we had that wisdom when we were getting our full ability.

Mikael Dia:
I know. It's funny that you say that because you're right. I my younger self would be like, Yeah, I hear you old man. But I'm 20 years old. I'm 18 years old. I wanna make money today. So I'll deal with the future in the future. You know, and I think that that's the but that's that's the reality of getting older and wiser is that you these are lessons that you learn.

Mikael Dia:
Sometimes people tell you something and you hear it, but it really requires it's like somebody telling you, here's what it's going to be like when you have a child. Right? And you have a kid and you're like, I hear you. And then you have an actual child. It's like, why didn't nobody tell me? Why did nobody not tell me it was like this? Well, somebody did tell you it was gonna be like this. Yeah. You have to experience it. Right? And and that's just the reality of it.

Rob Da Costa:
Listen, I we're currently chatting for ages. So just to wrap things up, if people wanna find out more about you and Funnelytics, where would they go?

Mikael Dia:
Yeah. Come go to Funnelytics dot io to learn more about Funnelytics. And, if you want to connect with me, most of my content and stuff is posted on LinkedIn. And I have some pretty cool articles and some cool stuff that we are adding to Mikaeldia.com as well. So

Rob Da Costa:
Great.

Mikael Dia:
Those are best places.

Rob Da Costa:
I will make sure. Sorry. I'm scribbling that down. Make sure we include all those links in the show notes. Just wanna say a huge thank you for joining us this afternoon. I know that the listeners and the viewers will find find this really valuable, and hopefully, there's a few takeaways that they can go and start thinking about immediately that will have an impact on their agency.

Mikael Dia:
Awesome. Thank you for having me.